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从芮成钢采访奥巴马看总统责任  

2009-04-12 00:23:12|  分类: 杂谈随笔 |  标签: |举报 |字号 订阅

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        芮成钢在伦敦采访奥巴马的风采又一次夺人眼球,让人依稀想起当年吴小莉对朱总理的著名采访。

        芮成钢是美国求学的中国人,提问方式仍然带有中国特色,比如一来就是两个“on behalf of”,中国人社会责任感强,常用“代表”二字,从领导到媒体记者,这种讲话方程式无处不在,我猜各国记者也只有中国会用这样的词汇和语气。再比如中国人大事小事爱提炼catchphrase,西方人却习惯从实证角度谈问题,所以奥巴马回答“i'm terrible with those catchphrase and sound bites,so i haven't come up with anything catchy yet”。

       如何避免本土政治对全球经济的影响是个广受关注的敏感问题,奥巴马巧妙而坦诚地表达了自己的想法,既然是美国总统,那么考虑的不是中国、不是日本,也不是其他任何国家的利益,美国总统的首要工作目标是有效满足美国人民的需要和解决他们关心的问题,带领美国人民走出经济危机是职责赋予总统的义务。奥巴马关于全球相互依存和融合的提法无一不是围绕美国利益这一中心:支持贫穷国家意味着把握经济和市场发展的潜在机遇,防止全世界人民陷入反美情绪。在这样的全球峰会上,奥巴马直白地表明了维护美国利益的观点,西方的价值观并不注重所谓“大国风范”。最近常常提到的“大国”,言下之意是中国是“大国”,要在全球经济衰退中承担更多责任,要见义勇为、以德服人,中国也确实在树立这样的国际形象,包括全球采购、增持美国国债,事实上,职权民授,将国民幸福放在首位才是一国领袖最应关注的问题。

      同样的视角体现在关于保护主义的答复中,奥总统对保护主义的观点很明确,那就是即使保护主义对经济和生产力有副作用,但为了全球化而遭遇损失的美国民众建立保障和过渡,帮助原有自由贸易框架下或自由贸易协定下受损或破产的美国企业实现转型,解决这些生产者的就业,政府责无旁贷要实行保护主义。美国总统对于峰会这一基本目标持这样的观点,我们对贸易自由wto规则还能有何期待?峰会对保护主义的讨论雷声大雨点小,自然不会有实质性的进展和措施。

       奥总统话风之自由,语言之清晰,语义之明确,实在是独具特色的“明星范”,短短几分钟的采访,除了表现优秀的中国记者,更大的亮点是美国总统奥巴马,我相信,他关于使美国民众生活得更好是最直接责任的说法会通过电视直播和网络感染着美国民众,当然,美国民众,不是美国的部分公民,更不是全球人民,而是包括各阶层在内的美国人民大众,这才是美国政府各项政策的核心目标,正如奥巴马说“这才是他们选举我的目的”,套用一句中国古话:“当官不为民做主,不如回家种红薯”。

 

附:采访实录(来源:芮成钢个人网站)

       RUI CHENGGANG: Rui Chenggang of China Central Television. It seems the world leaders have been talking about increasing the voice and voting rights of developing countries. I would like to ask two questions instead of just one. First one, on behalf of China...

芮成钢:芮成钢,来自中国中央电视台。既然全球的领导人一直在讲要给发展中国家更多的话语权和投票权,那么我就想问两个问题而不是一个问题。第一个问题是代表中国问的..

 

OBAMA: I may choose which one I want to answer.

奥巴马:我可能只选择其中一个问题回答。

(LAUGHTER)(奥巴马笑)

RUI CHENGGANG: of course.

芮成钢:当然可以。

OBAMA: That's always the danger of asking two questions.

奥巴马:问两个问题总是有风险的。

 

RUI CHENGGANG: First one, you've had a very fruitful meeting with our President. And during the Clinton administration, U.S.-China relationship was characterized, in Clinton's words, "strategic, constructive partnership." During the Bush era it was -- the catchphrase, quote, unquote, "stakeholder." The Bush administration expects China to -- to become a responsible stakeholder in international affairs. Have you come up with a catchphrase of your own? And, certainly, it is not the G-2, is it?

芮成钢:首先,您和中国国家主席在此次峰会上进行了成果颇丰的会谈。在克林顿时期,中美关系被克林顿概括为“建设性战略伙伴关系”。在小布什时期,(形容中美关系的)关键词是“利益相关者”——当时的布什政府希望中国在国际事务中担当负责任的利益相关者。您是否已经有了一个自己的关键词(来定位中美关系)呢?那当然不会是所谓的G2,对吧?

 

And my second question is, on behalf of the world, politics is very local, even though we've been talking about global solution, as indicated by your recent preference over American journalists and British, which is OK. (Laughter.) How can you make sure that you will do whatever you can, so that that local politics will not trump or negatively affect good international economics?

Thank you, Mr. President.

我的第二个问题是代表全世界问的。虽然我们一直在讲全球性的对策,但政治本身却是非常本土化的,正如您刚才一直优先选择美国和英国的记者提问,不过这倒没有什么。(奥巴马笑)

问题是,您如何确保糟糕的本土政治不会干扰或消极的影响到正确的国际经贸往来合作?谢谢,总统先生。

OBAMA: Well, those -- those are excellent questions. On -- on the first question, your American counterparts will tell you I'm terrible with those little catchphrases and sound bites. So I haven't come up with anything catchy yet, but if you have any suggestions, let me know. (LAUGHTER) I'll be happy to use them.

奥巴马:你问得问题都非常精彩。关于第一个问题,你的美国同行们可以告诉你,我最不善于用关键词或短语对事务进行概括了。所以(对于中美关系)我到目前为止还没有想到用什么精辟的短语来概括。不过你要是有什么建椋环粮嫠呶摇#ㄐΓ┪一岷芨咝说氖褂盟?/P>

 

In terms of local politics, look, I'm the President of the United States. I'm not the President of China, I'm not the President of Japan, I'm not the President of the other participants here.  And so I have a direct responsibility to my constituents to make their lives better.  That's why they put me in there.  That accounts for some of the questions here, about how concretely does me being here help them find a job, pay for their home, send their kids to college, live what we call the American Dream.  And I will be judged by my effectiveness in meeting their needs and concerns.  

至于本土政治,你看,我是美国的总统,不是中国的主席,也不是日本首相,我不是参加峰会各位的首脑。我最直接的责任是让我们美国的人民生活得更好,这才是他们选举我到这个职位的目的。这也是前面几个问题中所提到的,为什么我来这里(参与20国峰会)能够帮助美国人民就业、购买住房、培养孩子上大学、实现我们所说的“美国梦”。衡量我的标准,就是要看我是否能有效地满足美国人民的需要和解决他们所关心的问题。

But in an era of integration and interdependence, it is also my responsibility to lead America into recognizing that its interests, its fate is tied up with the larger world; that if we neglect or abandon those who are suffering in poverty, that not only are we depriving ourselves of potential opportunities for markets and economic growth, but ultimately that despair may turn to violence that turns on us; that unless we are concerned about the education of all children and not just our children, not only may we be depriving ourselves of the next great scientist who's going to find the next new energy source that saves the planet, but we also may make people around the world much more vulnerable to anti-American propaganda. 

但是在现在这个各国相互依存相互融合的时期,我的另一个职责就是带领美国人民认识到:我们国家的利益和命运和世界是紧密相连的。如果我们忽视或者放弃那些遭遇贫穷的国家和人民,我们将不但放弃了经济和市场发展的潜在机遇,而且最终失望会转变为暴力的冲突反过来伤害我们。如果我们只关注美国的下一代,而不是全世界所有下一代的教育问题,那么我们将不仅仅会失去某一个探索到新能源来拯救地球的伟大科学家,我们会使全世界的人民更易于陷入反美的情绪。

So if I'm effective as America's President right now, part of that effectiveness involves holding a -- providing Americans insight into how their self-interest is tied up with yours.  And that's an ongoing project because it's not always obvious. 

所以,如果我现在作为美国总统是称职的,是有作为的,那么部分的作为就将体现在我帮助美国人去深刻理解:他们的利益和你们的利益是相连的。这是个持续不断的任务——因为它往往不容易被人理解。

And there are going to be times where short-term interests are going to differ; there's no doubt about it.  And protectionism is the classic example.  You can make arguments that if you can get away with protecting your markets, as long as the other folks don't protect theirs, then in the short term you may benefit.  And it then becomes important not only for me to try to give people a sense of why, over the long term, that's counter-productive, but also it becomes important for me to put policies in place in the United States that provide a cushion, provide support for those people who may suffer local dislocations because of globalization.  And that's something that I think every government has to think about.     

有些时候大家的短期利益是有差异的,这是不容置疑的,保护主义就是一个经典的例子。你可能会想:如果你保护你的本国市场不被惩罚,而别的国家都不实施保护主义,你在短期就会有切近的利益。所以,我要向大家解释为什么保护主义从长期来看,对经济和生产力有负作用,这很重要。但同时,在美国国内我们也要实行某些政策,为那些由于全球化而遭遇损失的人们建立经济的保障与过渡,这也非常重要。我觉得这是每一个政府都需要考虑的。    

There are individuals who will be harmed by a trade deal.  There are businesses who will go out of business because of free trade.  And to the extent that a government is not there to help them reshape their company or retrain for the new jobs that are being created, over time you're going to get people who see -- who rightly see their personal self-interest in very narrow terms.  Okay?

会有人因为一个贸易协定而遭受损失,会有公司因为自由贸易而关门破产。政府如果不在这种情况下帮助这些企业转型,帮助他们找到新的就业机会,长此以往,就会让这些人陷入只顾自身利益的狭隘当中(而一叶障目不见泰山)。不是吗?

 

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